158 Responses to News & Links

1. Joseph Kaplan on February 29, 2012 at 1:57 pm

   Rabbi Glickman,

   Don’t expect MMHY to back up any of his anonymous claims. He likes to make them; he doesn’t, however, like to give any support for them, even when asked nicely.
2. Hirhurim on February 29, 2012 at 1:57 pm

   MMHY: I believe R. Glickman thought you were criticizing ORA for high salaries. My understanding is you just meant Jewish non-profits in general.
3. sp on February 29, 2012 at 3:01 pm

   “it enables an interesting conversation to proceed over multiple days. practically speaking, a separate new post closes the conversation at the end of the day.”

   Besides for the news posts, there’s at least one post a day here. Under that logic, conversation would only proceed on it for a single day, from experience that’s simply not true.
4. abba's rantings on February 29, 2012 at 3:20 pm

   SP:

   i was only referring to news & links posts. i didn’t notice any other changes on the site, at least from my non-mobile device.

   and i have the opposite experience with the non News & Links posts. generally once a new post appears, the comments on previous post dies out very quickly. that’s generally what i’ve seen
5. MDH on February 29, 2012 at 4:26 pm

   http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/29/congressman-facing-pressure-from-jewish-groups-on-advisers-religious-divorce/
6. emma on February 29, 2012 at 5:30 pm

   Gil, I think it is clear MMhY is refering to ORA salaries specifically. As he states they are public knowledge. I heard other criticize them and looked them up once (most recent year i found easily is 2008) and did not find them excessive. How much/little does someone have to make before MMhY is willing to call it a real “shoestring”?
7. shaul shapira on February 29, 2012 at 7:33 pm

   “Israeli lawmakers slam ultra-Orthodox radio station for keeping women off the air”

   Kfiyah anti-datit if there ever was one…

   (Of course they made sure to crack dow. on the pirate stations first.)
8. mycroft on February 29, 2012 at 8:08 pm

   “into the public sphere? I think it does more harm than good.”
   There are tradeoffs in bringing matters to public attention.
9. Ploni on February 29, 2012 at 10:16 pm

   The correct link for Rabbi Mordechai Torczyner’s”The Joy of Giving” on the YU Torah Purim to Go page is:

   http://www.yutorah.org/togo/purim/articles/Purim_To_Go_-_5772_Rabbi_Torczyner.pdf
10. Moshe Shoshan on March 1, 2012 at 2:35 am

    “Women Seek Role in Deciding Halacha”

    Dov F.,
    Knowing peronsonally a significant portion of the rabbanim and rabbaniot who make up beit hillel, I can say with some confidence that the article portrayed the group as more left wing than it really is.

    However, your demand that women produce teshuvot is nonsensical. The vast majority of rabbis hwho pskin hilchos, shabbos, nida and even more “elite” areas of halakha do not produce teshuvos, and are not qualified to. They are only asking for women to be allowed to paskin according to their level of ability, which in some cases is quite high compared tot he average pulpit rabbi
11. mycroft on March 1, 2012 at 5:48 am

    ” It’s true that many have reasons to not make aliya right now (and each of us must judge the validity of the reasons, but we should imho never make the mistake of feeling living in galut is lchatchila :”

    AS ONE WHO LIVES IN NORTH AMERICA It is certainly a very deficient aspect of my Jewishness that I live here.
12. mycroft on March 1, 2012 at 6:02 am

    “What Rackover wants to know is why the rabbis should criticize this “abomination” and not others”

    from

    “Yet Rackover, who agrees that gay marriage is not halachically acceptable, takes issue with these rabbis. He wrote a column in response to “Orthodox Rabbis Stand on Principle,” noting that the Orthodox community spends a disproportionate amount of time attacking this particular issue, while many others (he names child sex abuse, serious gender discrimination and poverty as examples) are left alone. In it, he is is outwardly exasperated with the eagerness of the “Orthodox Rabbis Stand On Principle” signers, writing “Big News! The Torah and Orthodox understanding of Halacha prohibit gay marriage. Who knew?” But he continues, “An Orthodox rabbi myself, I happen to agree that this was not an Orthodox wedding. But I think these rabbis’ response is a much bigger problem than two Orthodox gay men seeking a way to dignify their relationship through marriage.” What Rackover wants to know is why the rabbis should criticize this “abomination” and not others”
13. Nachum on March 1, 2012 at 7:44 am

    As Tevye would say, if they would agree, I would agree. If the homosexualists stop being so vociferous, us normal people could relax. Not until then.
14. IH on March 1, 2012 at 8:43 am

    “if…us normal people could relax.”

    Nachum — the empirical facts as seen in professional polling is that tolerance of homosexual relationships is now normal. Your strong views may have grounding in history, but are no longer representative of “us normal people”.
15. HAGTBG on March 1, 2012 at 8:52 am

    Gil, don’t bother posting my prior comments. I figure, after 18 hours of them being in moderation, they are buried enough that there would be no point, even if it was published. And clearly it is causing you some sort of bother.
16. IH on March 1, 2012 at 8:57 am

    From the newly released paperback of Putnam’s American Grace p. 561:

    Supports gay marriage: 
               18-29.   30-59.   60+.     Total
    2006:  48%.      33%.    23%.     34%
    2011:  60%.      42%.    32%.     43%
17. Nachum on March 1, 2012 at 9:02 am

    Wow, IH. Citing polls in support of what is “normal.”

    Hmmm, let’s try another:

    Thinks Jesus is the son of God: about 75-80%

    I guess we won’t be seeing you on the Jewish blogs anymore, hm?

    It’s also nice to see your parochialism at work. Who, exactly, is being polled here?
18. IH on March 1, 2012 at 9:10 am

    The appendix on data analysis: http://books.google.com/books?id=cKmXDES703wC&lpg=PP1&dq=Putnam%20American%20Grace&pg=PA593#v=onepage&q&f=false
19. aiwac on March 1, 2012 at 10:30 am

    Why is there no mention of the latest Tradition? I, for one, thought the article on RDH’s new book was an interesting read.

    On a side note, writing on Hirhurim has gotten me to use more and more acronyms. You’d think we were in Tzahal or something…:)
20. Hirhurim on March 1, 2012 at 10:45 am

    I never received the latest Tradition. I downloaded the Slifkin-Bleich exchange and will probably comment on it. But I don’t have time to read the whole journal electronically.
21. abba's rantings on March 1, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    “During the remainder of his life, Grant demonstrated that his apology was genuine. He appointed more Jews to public office than all previous presidents combined, and spoke out for Jewish rights on multiple occasions.”

    most importantly he appointed benjamin peixotto america’s first consul to bucharest. america didn’t need a consul there but it was part of american jewry’s program to assist a besieged rumanian jewry
22. Steve Brizel on March 1, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    This is great breaking news re the Beren Academy’s game in the Texas basketball tournament. http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/03/01/3091916/orthodox-ballers-sue-texas-school-school-district
23. Tal Benschar on March 1, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    “What Rackover wants to know is why the rabbis should criticize this “abomination” and not others”

    Because there is a concerted effort to have it considered as not an abomination.
24. Dov F. on March 1, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Moshe Shoshan -

    However, your demand that women produce teshuvot is nonsensical. The vast majority of rabbis who pskin hilchos, shabbos, nida and even more “elite” areas of halakha do not produce teshuvos, and are not qualified to. They are only asking for women to be allowed to paskin according to their level of ability, which in some cases is quite high compared tot he average pulpit rabbi.

    I don’t understand you. Are we talking about halachos which are mefurash and don’t require one to be medameh mi’milsa lemilsa? Who is stopping a woman from opening up a Shulchan Aruch and following what it says? That isn’t what p’sak means, and it isn’t what they want. The want to say chiddushim, and to be medameh milsa lemilsa. So let them show that they know how, and earn that respect.

    And no average pulpit rabbi is paskening anything either. Any average pulpit rabbi who rules based on his reasoning without adequately showing support for his view, is ripped apart. So, as I said, being that they appear to be interested in p’sak, and not just reading the Shulchan Aruch or Mishna Berura, let them prove themselves like everyone else.
25. Moshe Shoshan on March 1, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Tal,
    do you really think that all these statments against homosexuality have had any impact on the legitimization of it in the wider society?
    Its quite clear to me that the attack on homosexuals by the Religious Right, of which many Orthodx rabbonim are full members, are carried out as part of a larger “culture war” against the forces of Liberalism. The problem in my eyes is that so many people on both sides of the spectrum have such a simplistic Manichean view of the world.
26. Hirhurim on March 1, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    I believe the point is that there has not been any significant contribution by women to traditional Torah literature. Yes, some great Tanakh studies and a very few summaries of practical halakhah (e.g. Dr. Dena Zimmerman’s excellent English book) but where are the Torah journal articles explaining a difficult Tosafos or a sefer of lomdishe chakiros? I can only rarely write something like that but I have trouble taking seriously a group that has failed to produce any. Presumably they don’t value that kind of literature but they must value some sort of traditional rabbinic literature. Yet women haven’t produced anything of any serious quality (at least of which I am aware, and I’ve seen some failed attempts). If you want to gain respect, publish things that are so good that every serious talmid chacham will want, and even kollelniks in Lakewood will hide the sefarim in their cabinets.
27. abba's rantings on March 1, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    GIL:

    “I believe the point is that there has not been any significant contribution by women to traditional Torah literature”

    can probably be said about 99% of rabbonim as well?
28. Moshe Shoshan on March 1, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Dov,
    this is a semantic issue. I have no problem with your definition of psak. but I dont think that is what was meant in the article.

    Also, there is no clear line between “just repeating the SA” and chidushim. Rabbis who are not “poskim” make judgment calls all the time. even balabatim are medameh davar ledavr when they use the shmiras shabbos kehilchasa and apply it to a slightly different case that is stated in the text. In many cases there is no reason why an intelligent educated baalabos should no this.
29. Dov F. on March 1, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    Gil – Thank you, that is exactly my point.
30. Hirhurim on March 1, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Abba: Certainly more than half have published a Torah journal article at some point in their lives, even if only while in their prime in yeshiva. Many have done significantly more. Although I agree that many male rabbis do not deserve the title.
31. Dov F. on March 1, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Moshe Shoshan -

    even balabatim are medameh davar ledavr when they use the shmiras shabbos kehilchasa and apply it to a slightly different case that is stated in the text. In many cases there is no reason why an intelligent educated baalabos should no this.

    That is a terrible thing. My rabbe’im would shray chai vekayam about this phenomenon. They should stop, and we certainly should put a stamp if approval on it.
32. Dov F. on March 1, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    Unless the similarity is extremely obvious of course. But you don’t need a stamp of approval to be able to do that. Who’s saying a woman can’t look up a halacha in her halacha sefer and follow it?
33. Hirhurim on March 1, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    I should add that I don’t consider this an argument against women’s ordination bevause I am sure women will eventually offer serious contributions to traditional Torah literature. They just haven’t so far.
34. abba's rantings on March 1, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    GIL:

    “Certainly more than half have published a Torah journal article at some point in their lives”

    i’d be very surprised if this were true, but even if true, how many of these torah journal articles honestly can be described, as you qualified it, as a “significant contribution . . . to traditional Torah literature”

    thanks for linking to “A Soldier Connects to His Jewish Roots During Basic Training”
35. Moshe Shoshan on March 1, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    Gil,
    I fundamentally agree. the infrastructure and the critical mass of advanced womens learning aren’t there yet. Furthermore advanced gemara and halakha study remain pretty marginal in the MO/RZ community.

    But on the other hand, how many “chidushim” has R. Ovadiah published. On a different level, how about R. Broyde. There should be no affirmative action for women in this field, but neither should they be set unreasonably high just to keep the girls out of the good old boys club.
36. Hirhurim on March 1, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Abba: Most articles have some interesting idea in them.

    Moshe: Aderaba, both R. Ovadiah and R. Broyde gained their reputations by publishing in Torah journals. While their articles aren’t lomdish, they are sufficiently original to command attention. I’m not sure I agree with the “critical mass” argument. There are some brilliant women. I think there’s just a lack of interest.
37. Moshe Shoshan on March 1, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    On re-reading the article, I think that this is really about a stupid Forward headline. The quote from the article from Oshra Koren, who is no radical feminist, about women joining “the halakhic conversation, does not seem to refer to psak by any definition. Rather she seems to be saying that the should be female leaders who represent and express the needs and concerns of women directly to poskim and to be able to express and be taken seriously how they view the halakha.
38. Dov F. on March 1, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Moshe Shoshan -

    I am not opposed, in principle, to a woman paskening. But when they have not shown anything for themselves and are pushing for it anyway, it just seems ludicrous. Yes, maybe this is a boys club, but that isn’t even relevant. Practically speaking, no serious yeshiva guy will ever respect a woman posek who doesn’t have what to show for herself, but just might go buy her sefer if she does. So instead of making noise, if they wish to change things, that’s what they should be working on.
39. aiwac on March 1, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    “There should be no affirmative action for women in this field”

    Agreed. Doing otherwise will simply permanently devalue the real achievements of women in the halachic world when it comes.

    “I think there’s just a lack of interest”

    Why is that? There are plenty of interesting works by women in other fields (philosophy, for instance).
40. Dov F. on March 1, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Moshe Shoshan -

    female leaders who represent and express the needs and concerns of women directly to poskim

    I am all for that. Is that really not common at all?

    and to be able to express and be taken seriously how they view the halakha.

    I wouldn’t care how anyone views halacha unless one actually properly know the halacha and its background. You don’t have a representative of the food industry telling the rabbis how he feels the halachos of kashrus should work.
41. Moshe Shoshan on March 1, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Dov,
    the women we are talking about have plenty of halakhic knowledge enough to have an intelligent opinion on the matter even if a final decision requires a posek.

    I dont think that we really disagree much.

    Also, I have been noticing that places like migdal oz and Lindenbaum seem to be developing their own culture of talmud torah which is different from what we are familiar with in yeshivas of the litvitsh tradition. By and large the women who engaged in high level study seem to have little interest in publishing. I dont know why this is.
42. Nachum on March 1, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    Gil, I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you should be honest enough to admit that you’ve basically set your own standard in saying that “lomidshe chakiros” are what makes a serious Torah scholar. There are some people out there who think that serious learning need not necessarily involve Tosfos, chakiros, or Brisk.
43. aiwac on March 1, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    Moshe,

    What is the nature of this culture? What are its goals and methods?
44. Dov F. on March 1, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Moshe -

    Yes, it seems we’re pretty much on the same page here.

    Nachum -

    I think all Gil is saying is that practically speaking that is what it takes to get acknowledged.
45. IH on March 1, 2012 at 5:01 pm

    A reminder of a previous discussion on this topic: http://torahmusings.com/2011/05/of-revolutionary-women-and-straw-men/
46. Tal Benschar on March 1, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    Tal,
    do you really think that all these statments against homosexuality have had any impact on the legitimization of it in the wider society?

    In the Jewish society, certainly yes. The trends in the ouside world inevitably seep into the Jewish world, and that is why rabbonim speak up about it.

    In the general world, the effect is marginal at best.

    Furthermore, the phrase “all these statements” implies that that is all rabbonim talk about. It is one of many topics discussed. In the total scheme of things, and given that this is a major issue in society AND there is a major push in the wrong direction, I don’t believe the attention given to it is out of proportion.
47. Hirhurim on March 1, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    Nachum: There were Torah journals before Reb Chaim was even born and plenty today that aren’t Brisker. You don’t have to be a Brisker to say an original peshat in Tosafos.
48. pedantic on March 1, 2012 at 6:51 pm

    Other than Haskalah journals, what Torah journals were there before Reb Chaim was born (1853)?
49. Hirhurim on March 1, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    Didn’t R. Yaakov Ettlinger publish a journal?
50. Hirhurim on March 1, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    שומר ציון הנאמן 1845
    http://www.worldcat.org/title/treue-zions-wachter/oclc/174066266