173 Responses to News & Links

1. mycroft on December 18, 2011 at 12:42 pm

   Comments from Jewish Action of kids schul attendance

   “The importance of avoiding coercion in chinuch is also emphasized in Torah literature. The Shlah Hakadosh (Parashat Vayetzei 31:5) writes that when someone wants something done by his family members, it isn’t advisable to impose his will–even if he has authority over them. Rather he should try to influence them in a manner that will bring them to want it themselves.

   When we make harsh demands of our children, our values don’t become internalized. This is an important principle in chinuch.”
   Especially crucial in HS why is that some mechanchim are still proud of my way or the highway-or are in demand depending on how many non glamorous kids can be encouraged to leave the system.

   “However, I am not pessimistic. Why? I recall over thirty years ago when I was a dorm counselor at Yeshiva University, and Rabbi Yosef Blau, the mashgiach, spoke to us about the alarming number of boys who were not coming to davening on Shabbat. He discussed with us what, if anything, there was to do about it.

   I no longer recall if the policies helped. However, my hunch tells me that most of those “boys” are now men who are in shul on Shabbat and they are grappling with their own children’s shul attendance.”

   I hope the men are in schul davening but I suspect there is much more correlation in behavior from YC to decades alter than the writer thinks. Of course, I remember when minyan attendance was mandatory in the dorms-of course making YU a nonsectarian institution effectively barred mandatory minyan attendance.

   ” But after the Bar or Bat Mitzvah celebration, the excitement has dissipated and the sweet taste has long left their systems.”
   Crucial question-why has it left their sytems

   ” For some children, after elementary school or junior high school the synagogue becomes, at best, a social center on Shabbat and holidays. ”
   Halevai that it has become a social center-certainly pledges of making the schul not welcoming to all see eg pledges of quiet publicly signed will not encourage kids to treat it as a social center. If the schul is not the social center on weekends they’ll find another social center with disastorous results to Yahadus.
2. ruvie on December 18, 2011 at 12:47 pm

   tal – “Because the halakha is a man should not view a woman from behind.” – so how are they allowed to walk in the streets per their halacha (obviously this is not normative).
   i believe there is a misnha that states one is not allowed to walk behind one’s mother or wife (as well as a rtiva or rashba on why that no longer applies and not normative)
3. abba's rantings on December 18, 2011 at 1:13 pm

   RUVIE:

   “tal – “Because the halakha is a man should not view a woman from behind.” – so how are they allowed to walk in the streets per their halacha (obviously this is not normative).”

   bite your tongue (or typing fingers). you think some don’t wish for separate gender sidewalks? (don’t they exist already?)

   also, i thought the problem with mixed buses was wrt bumping up against women when crowded, not seeing them?
4. mycroft on December 18, 2011 at 1:35 pm

   The following should be of interest
   http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/obamas-disingenuous-speech-to-jewish-voters/2011/12/17/gIQAlBkz0O_blog.html

   Note the Washington Post is “fair and balanced”
5. MDJ on December 18, 2011 at 1:54 pm

   >>Because the halakha is a man should not view a woman from behind.
   Then let them look in a sefer or at the floor. I should add that my comments here are l’shitatcha. I would be little more happy with separate seating with women at the front that with women at the back.
6. avi on December 18, 2011 at 2:26 pm

   “How many different bus companies are there in Israel? Besides Egged?”

   Off the top of my head, there is Egged, Dan, Kavim, Afikim, Illit Metropoline, Nateev Express, G B Tours, Omni Express, Veolia and Superbus.

   “Avi, please tell us what makes it illegitimate, apart from your passion about it?”

   For starters, this… http://blog.webyeshiva.org/halacha/applying-old-halachot-to-new-conditions
7. ruvie on December 18, 2011 at 2:39 pm

   abba – were there separate sidewalks in the shtetl? separate gender sidewalks is based on what halacha – can you show me it being ever instituted? in the end separation io men and women is generally religious coercion (tal’s reference to separate gender bathrooms id a red herring – it is a societal norm not based on religion).
8. avi on December 18, 2011 at 2:47 pm

   Obviously, the shtettle only had one side walk. Because they were poor and it was all they could afford. But really, they wanted a balcony sidewalk for the women. :P
9. mycroft on December 18, 2011 at 5:24 pm

   Re link

   http://www.ou.org/jewish_action/article/what_a_difference_a_year_makes_masa_israel_journey_is_changing_the_way

   It is very importantthat we don’t treat our teenagers/young adults as either learn in Israel at Yeshiva or out-we need to offer other opportunities-appears worthwhile. Of course, even non religious programs have their advantage over nothing for the sadly nonobservant.
10. IH on December 18, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    “In general, when it comes to North America, the Chief Rabbinate is prepared to accept conversions done under Haredi auspices or those of the Rabbinical Council of America – but not by other Orthodox organizations such as the International Rabbinic Fellowship.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-interior-ministry-still-letting-chief-rabbinate-decide-who-is-a-jew-1.402198

    Anyone know who is advising the Israeli Chief Rabbinate on US Orthodox intramurals?
11. mycroft on December 18, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    “Signs in Jerusalem buses now say people have a right to sit wherever they wish and that harassing passengers could be a criminal offense.”

    At times on the “chareidi buses” if carrying a lot of packages my wife has sat in front-no one bothered her-but of course limited experience. In order to have your Rav kav charged you have to place it in/omn the machine next to the driver-how do the chareidi women pay who get on in the back?

    .
12. mycroft on December 18, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    “In general, when it comes to North America, the Chief Rabbinate is prepared to accept conversions done under Haredi auspices or those of the Rabbinical Council of America -”
    Misleading language-conversions for decades were done by RCA Rabbis-the RCA would certify them to theIsraeli CR when the need arose-which was only in cases of aliyah and marriage in Israel. THere never was almost never the question ofaliyah itself-the JA would certify conversion and Jewish identity of more than a year, Of course, notthat many cases-notthat much aliyah from Us inthe first place.
    The RCA/RCA Bes Din was involved in certifying the good standing of the Rabbis involved to the Israeli CR.
13. IH on December 18, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4163397,00.html

    “The Ministerial Committee on Legislative Affairs unanimously voted to approve the ‘Tzohar bill,’ which allows citizens to register for marriage at any rabbinate in Israel and not necessarily at the rabbinate in their place of residence.

    Shas party officials have expressed their indignation over the government’s overwhelming support of the proposal.”
14. mycroft on December 18, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    “Steve Brizel on December 16, 2011 at 1:35 pm
    Mycroft-WADR, ask any rav out of town what kinds of pressures he faces in dealing with intermmarriage and the threat of losing a job that either insisting on Kabalas Ol Mitzvos or refusing to perform Gerus Las Vegas style entails.”

    Not just out of town-but even in NY it is my impression that the vast majority of geirus are either giyurei katan or giyur of BTs who always thought they were Jewish but had lets say a maternal grandmother who was not Jewish. By the way your attack on RAbbis losingtheir job is insulting to Rabbis-it is much more likely that many Rabbis agree with me privately-but are afraid of publicly disagreeing with those who are involved in the new system. It is not exactly a good career move-and BTW the only people who could write the way that I am are those who are not in Orthodox professional life, have no kids in the shidduch market, don’t have children or siblings in Orthodox professional life.
    I have heard from RCA members how because of this new policy they can’t recommend that converts after Day School go to Israeli Yeshiva for the year post HS. Remember a high percentage of converts were giyurei katan. Somehow or other you seem to ignore the facts onthe ground of what the onas ger that hastaken place.

    “The RCA’s Gerus standards were intended to supply a standard where instead out of town rabbanim had nowhere to turn to in such situations.”
    You believe that Rabbonim don’t consult with others-either senior local Rabbonim, their Rebbeim, or people with expertise on a sheila. That is standard practice to the best of my knowledge of Rabbonim that I have known and spoken to-not just inthis issue but forall issues that arise. True there are difficult halachik issues that may arise such as sudden second day yom tov questions in which are difficult because one can’t consult with others- but those are not relevant to gerus which are not sudden emergency sheilos.

    “I think that you are IMO confusing those intances of Giyur which were accepted in the past with cases where there was minimal or no insistence on Kabalas Ol Mitzvos.”
    I am not confusingthose cases-the ones and Rabbis that Iam familiar with ahve always made Kabalas Ol Mitzvot the essential and if giyurei katan a promise from the parents to bring up child as a shomer mitzvot. BTW to the best of my knowledge such promises were demanded even from obviously frum parents.

    “WADR, Onaas HaGer AFAIK, means not oppressing a Ger once you know that a person is a Ger Tzedek”
    Hoiw about Chazakah-a person was brought up Jewish and actedJewish for decades-you can’t usually prove the gerus decades later-the sad reality is that there is a good chance one of The Rabbonim will be inYeshiva shel maalah.

    “-I would not use Onaas HaGer as a basis for condemning any rav who insisted on a genuine Gerus. ”
    Not accepting a gerus done by shomrei mitzvot when there is no indication that fraud was involved is onaas Hager.

    Again, this comment , which is based on my hearing a shiur from one of the members of the BDA this past Sukkos, warrants reiteration:

    “The fact that the standards include guidelines that may not be present among a sizeable percentage of some prominent rabbinical leaders FFB membership such as adherence to Taharas Mishpacha, etc, really is IMO irrelevant” in determing what constitutes Kabalas Ol Mitzvos and is IMO ignorant of the fact that any rav who deals with issues of Gerus can and should be equipped to ascertain who is a Ger Tzedek and who is a Ger Lshem Ishus or worse
15. mycroft on December 18, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    ““The fact that the standards include guidelines that may not be present among a sizeable percentage of some prominent rabbinical leaders FFB membership such as adherence to Taharas Mishpacha, etc, really is IMO irrelevant” in determing what constitutes Kabalas Ol Mitzvos and is IMO ignorant of the fact that any rav who deals with issues of Gerus can and should be equipped to ascertain who is a Ger Tzedek and who is a Ger Lshem Ishus or worse”
    Determining the facts of an individual person if ithe gerus was dond for Ishus or lishma is a factual question which is best done by those closestto the facts-thusthe Rav believed that sheilas hadto be answered locally and refused attimes to answer even very close talmidim-he’d offer to over the sugyot but as he said “what do you want me to say you’re there”
16. mycroft on December 19, 2011 at 5:35 am

    “of the fact that any rav who deals with issues of Gerus can and should be equipped to ascertain who is a Ger Tzedek and who is a Ger Lshem Ishus or worse”

    There is absolutely no reason to assume that a RY even a world class talmid chacham is able better to ascertain the genuineness of person Xs beliefs than a local Rav is where the Ger is located.
17. Anonymous on December 19, 2011 at 5:40 am

    “but not by other Orthodox organizations such as the International Rabbinic Fellowship.”

    Yes, the long-established Fellowship, that venerable institution, with so many years of good standing behind it. Come on. I wouldn’t even accept the Agudat HaRabbanim.

    “Signs in Jerusalem buses now say people have a right to sit wherever they wish and that harassing passengers could be a criminal offense.”

    According to my wife, who is very active in this issue (one of our first “dates” was a protest at the Supreme Court), the stickers are regularly torn off by the crazies. But the drivers are aware of the new rules and refuse to tell people where to sit. She regularly sits in the front of segregated buses but has never encountered real problems, by the way.
18. Nachum on December 19, 2011 at 5:41 am

    That was me.
19. Lawrence Kaplan on December 19, 2011 at 7:18 am

    mycroft: The main reason you are able say what you say is that you post anonymously.

    That said I agree with you re gerus.
20. avi on December 19, 2011 at 7:30 am

    Is there any organization in Israel that can take up R’ Nathan Lopes Cardozo message and stop this “oppression of the ger”?
21. News & Links | Hirhurim – Torah Musings on December 19, 2011 at 8:19 am

    [...] a Commitment Ceremony ▪ Brooklyn D.A. Refuses To Name Child Sex Abusers ▪ SALT Monday▪ Last week’s news & linksRules: link Share and [...]
22. mycroft on December 20, 2011 at 5:43 am

    “Lawrence Kaplan on December 19, 2011 at 7:18 am
    mycroft: The main reason you are able say what you say is that you post anonymously”

    I am not really anonymous-I am known by many-since I describe myself exactly many who know me have recognized me and commented to me about my comments. You may not believe that but within relevant circles many know who I am.
23. Lawrence Kaplan on December 20, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    mycroft: So if people know you anyway and you have nothing to lose, aa you say, why don’t you post under your own name and take personal l responsibility for your own often very critical comments?